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	<title>Comments on: What does &#8220;The Kingdom of God is within you&#8221; mean?</title>
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	<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/</link>
	<description>"Who has done his day's work? Who will soonest be through with his supper? Who wishes to walk with me?" -- From "Leaves of Grass" by Walt Whitman</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2908</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2908</guid>
		<description>Hey Frank,

You said "A primary difficulty for me in accepting the Baha’i faith as the basis for belief is in the concept of the Covenant which says that God will send messengers every thousand years or so and humankind will accept and follow them. Baha’i believe that no direct contact with God is possible. "

Here is my take on the Baha'i belief that no direct contact with God is possible. Baha'is believe that God is infinitely perfect. So perfect, in fact, that the words "infinitely perfect" can't even contain any kind of true perception of His perfection. The imperfect mind cannot comprehend perfection, and so, any thought we have of God is not truly a representation of the real God. 

So, whenever we have a thought of God as being "all knowing", "all powerful", "in everything", "containing everything" we are not truly thinking about the real God, who is infinitely beyond even these interpretations. So, if we cannot truly comprehend who the real God is, who exactly are we thinking about? This is where the Baha'i belief comes in. Baha'is believe that the manifestation of God is God as far as we are able to comprehend it. So, whenever you think of God, you are truly thinking about Christ, or Baha'u'llah, or Buddha, who, in Baha'i belief all represent God. 

When I say this, I am not saying that Baha'is believe that the personage of these manifestations are God, but that the essence is. To that end, there is not true separation between the God that cast Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden or the burning bush that spoke to Moses, or the God that we find inside of ourselves. All representations of God are one and the same, all are a manifestation of God and are the only way of truly knowing God. 

When Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the light", Baha'is believe that he was not saying this as a personage, but as the manifestation of God. Essentially, rather than looking at this phrase and saying that the only way to God is through Jesus the person, we say that if we have found God, we must have discovered that through Christ the manifestation. Even if we have never heard of Christ, if we have a concept of God, we have a concept of the reality of Christ. 

So, essentially, if you have a concept of God, it is not capable of being a concept of the real God, therefore it is actually a concept of the manifestation of God. We all worship the same God, many of us simply don't realize it. We get confused when we try to make our selves special by separating ourselves from the rest of humanity. The truth is we are all connected and the God we worship is the same God, even if we call it by different names. 

As far as the Baha'i covenant goes for following the latest messenger. That is a matter called progressive revelation. Baha'is believe that mankind is not a stationary being that has already achieved the culmination of perfection, but rather an evolving being that is becoming more and more perfect as time progresses. In order to facilitate that perfection, the manifestation of God returns to us in a personage of a messenger to give us new instructions on how to deal with our current state of perfection. When we accept this new messenger and follow these new rules, we are able to move forward in our evolution. Even if we don't accept the messenger, the new rules begin to apply. For instance, even most people in the Jewish faith will no longer stone a person for adultery (There may yet be some areas where this is acceptable, but in many places it is not). We even see that many of the leaders of Christian groups are finding that they are needing to change their stance on long standing rules and traditions. 

I can only submit my own current understanding of this issue here, and that constantly evolves as well. I hope that it provides you with some useful information or food for thought. 

Blessings to you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Frank,</p>
<p>You said &#8220;A primary difficulty for me in accepting the Baha’i faith as the basis for belief is in the concept of the Covenant which says that God will send messengers every thousand years or so and humankind will accept and follow them. Baha’i believe that no direct contact with God is possible. &#8221;</p>
<p>Here is my take on the Baha&#8217;i belief that no direct contact with God is possible. Baha&#8217;is believe that God is infinitely perfect. So perfect, in fact, that the words &#8220;infinitely perfect&#8221; can&#8217;t even contain any kind of true perception of His perfection. The imperfect mind cannot comprehend perfection, and so, any thought we have of God is not truly a representation of the real God. </p>
<p>So, whenever we have a thought of God as being &#8220;all knowing&#8221;, &#8220;all powerful&#8221;, &#8220;in everything&#8221;, &#8220;containing everything&#8221; we are not truly thinking about the real God, who is infinitely beyond even these interpretations. So, if we cannot truly comprehend who the real God is, who exactly are we thinking about? This is where the Baha&#8217;i belief comes in. Baha&#8217;is believe that the manifestation of God is God as far as we are able to comprehend it. So, whenever you think of God, you are truly thinking about Christ, or Baha&#8217;u'llah, or Buddha, who, in Baha&#8217;i belief all represent God. </p>
<p>When I say this, I am not saying that Baha&#8217;is believe that the personage of these manifestations are God, but that the essence is. To that end, there is not true separation between the God that cast Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden or the burning bush that spoke to Moses, or the God that we find inside of ourselves. All representations of God are one and the same, all are a manifestation of God and are the only way of truly knowing God. </p>
<p>When Jesus said, &#8220;I am the way and the truth and the light&#8221;, Baha&#8217;is believe that he was not saying this as a personage, but as the manifestation of God. Essentially, rather than looking at this phrase and saying that the only way to God is through Jesus the person, we say that if we have found God, we must have discovered that through Christ the manifestation. Even if we have never heard of Christ, if we have a concept of God, we have a concept of the reality of Christ. </p>
<p>So, essentially, if you have a concept of God, it is not capable of being a concept of the real God, therefore it is actually a concept of the manifestation of God. We all worship the same God, many of us simply don&#8217;t realize it. We get confused when we try to make our selves special by separating ourselves from the rest of humanity. The truth is we are all connected and the God we worship is the same God, even if we call it by different names. </p>
<p>As far as the Baha&#8217;i covenant goes for following the latest messenger. That is a matter called progressive revelation. Baha&#8217;is believe that mankind is not a stationary being that has already achieved the culmination of perfection, but rather an evolving being that is becoming more and more perfect as time progresses. In order to facilitate that perfection, the manifestation of God returns to us in a personage of a messenger to give us new instructions on how to deal with our current state of perfection. When we accept this new messenger and follow these new rules, we are able to move forward in our evolution. Even if we don&#8217;t accept the messenger, the new rules begin to apply. For instance, even most people in the Jewish faith will no longer stone a person for adultery (There may yet be some areas where this is acceptable, but in many places it is not). We even see that many of the leaders of Christian groups are finding that they are needing to change their stance on long standing rules and traditions. </p>
<p>I can only submit my own current understanding of this issue here, and that constantly evolves as well. I hope that it provides you with some useful information or food for thought. </p>
<p>Blessings to you</p>
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		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2890</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 00:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2890</guid>
		<description>The only thing that separates me from "G-d" is perception. Perception is formed in the brain/mind. Every idea that we talk about here is constructed in the mind out of language and reason. Being is. Being has no separation. In other words when "I AM" there is no "other". I guess you could say that "all is one and one is all" So, God is. And "I AM" and WE are all together. In the state of being there is nothing else. I have no "self". Upon this foundation of being all "things" are made manifest. When one becomes "still" and the thoughts and ideas of self, God, good, evil, right, wrong, fall away there.... 
there is creation in me, around me, through me, as in you, as in all "things".
Now, what do I as a person seek?  Right relationship.
IN right relationship I find creation, I AM creation, In right relationship I and the father are one. I am in you AS you are in me. 
The hardest thing for mind to do is NOTHING. Be STILL and KNOW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing that separates me from &#8220;G-d&#8221; is perception. Perception is formed in the brain/mind. Every idea that we talk about here is constructed in the mind out of language and reason. Being is. Being has no separation. In other words when &#8220;I AM&#8221; there is no &#8220;other&#8221;. I guess you could say that &#8220;all is one and one is all&#8221; So, God is. And &#8220;I AM&#8221; and WE are all together. In the state of being there is nothing else. I have no &#8220;self&#8221;. Upon this foundation of being all &#8220;things&#8221; are made manifest. When one becomes &#8220;still&#8221; and the thoughts and ideas of self, God, good, evil, right, wrong, fall away there&#8230;.<br />
there is creation in me, around me, through me, as in you, as in all &#8220;things&#8221;.<br />
Now, what do I as a person seek?  Right relationship.<br />
IN right relationship I find creation, I AM creation, In right relationship I and the father are one. I am in you AS you are in me.<br />
The hardest thing for mind to do is NOTHING. Be STILL and KNOW.</p>
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		<title>By: Fuck Fiction</title>
		<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2845</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuck Fiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2845</guid>
		<description>I don't think that having Its spirit inside of us, makes us gods, it just makes us a part of God, just like my kids are a part of me, or I am a part of my kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that having Its spirit inside of us, makes us gods, it just makes us a part of God, just like my kids are a part of me, or I am a part of my kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2842</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2842</guid>
		<description>Jesus came to show us God in the flesh and become our Savior.  When He spoke of the kingdom of God - which was His favorite topic - I believe He was speaking of a now/later manifestation of the kingdom.  On earth we can experience the kingdom of God when we believe He is God and give ourselves fully to Him.  He did not mean that we are all gods.  But allowing His blood to wash us clean, and giving our lives to Him, to live for Him, then He comes to abide in us.  Jesus abiding in us is what is meant by life in the Spirit.  His Holy Spirit dwells within us to help us walk righteously.  That's the now part.

The later part is that He will return to earth at the end of the age and set up His kingdom on earth.  Many Christians believe Jesus will be King on earth for 1000 years (Thy kingdom come...) and after His 1000 yr. reign we will experience a New Heaven and New Earth where He rules and reigns eternally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus came to show us God in the flesh and become our Savior.  When He spoke of the kingdom of God - which was His favorite topic - I believe He was speaking of a now/later manifestation of the kingdom.  On earth we can experience the kingdom of God when we believe He is God and give ourselves fully to Him.  He did not mean that we are all gods.  But allowing His blood to wash us clean, and giving our lives to Him, to live for Him, then He comes to abide in us.  Jesus abiding in us is what is meant by life in the Spirit.  His Holy Spirit dwells within us to help us walk righteously.  That&#8217;s the now part.</p>
<p>The later part is that He will return to earth at the end of the age and set up His kingdom on earth.  Many Christians believe Jesus will be King on earth for 1000 years (Thy kingdom come&#8230 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> and after His 1000 yr. reign we will experience a New Heaven and New Earth where He rules and reigns eternally.</p>
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		<title>By: Fuck Fiction</title>
		<link>http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2841</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuck Fiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/what-does-the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you-mean/#comment-2841</guid>
		<description>I think that Emmerson hits is "I am part or parcel of God," we are a part of It, and Its creation, and as a consequence, It is a part of us.  The breath of life that fills us, is part of It, and we then fill the world with life and art and little "pieces of God."

It has been my long standing belief that "In God's image," means, with a spirit of creativity.  What sets God apart from everything else, It is the creator, and the image that we have that is at the very root of God is infinite creator, with deep love for Its creation.  So we too are filled with that creative spirit, and that love for things that we create (which can become tainted since we aren't perfect).

So God is within us, and Its kingdom is all around us.  It can't be trapped or bottled, only discovered.

I'm not very familiar with Baha’i, but in Christianity (or at least in the actual words that are the true fundmentals of Christianity which are light years removed from modern Christianity), there are verses that speak to the very world around us being a testament to the presence of God, and that even "pagans" worshiped the "God Unknown."  So really couldn't the very world around us be a "manifistation" a messenger of God, and Its glory?  

Just some thoughts.  Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Emmerson hits is &#8220;I am part or parcel of God,&#8221; we are a part of It, and Its creation, and as a consequence, It is a part of us.  The breath of life that fills us, is part of It, and we then fill the world with life and art and little &#8220;pieces of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>It has been my long standing belief that &#8220;In God&#8217;s image,&#8221; means, with a spirit of creativity.  What sets God apart from everything else, It is the creator, and the image that we have that is at the very root of God is infinite creator, with deep love for Its creation.  So we too are filled with that creative spirit, and that love for things that we create (which can become tainted since we aren&#8217;t perfect).</p>
<p>So God is within us, and Its kingdom is all around us.  It can&#8217;t be trapped or bottled, only discovered.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not very familiar with Baha’i, but in Christianity (or at least in the actual words that are the true fundmentals of Christianity which are light years removed from modern Christianity), there are verses that speak to the very world around us being a testament to the presence of God, and that even &#8220;pagans&#8221; worshiped the &#8220;God Unknown.&#8221;  So really couldn&#8217;t the very world around us be a &#8220;manifistation&#8221; a messenger of God, and Its glory?  </p>
<p>Just some thoughts.  Great post.</p>
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